Barry Bussey Interviews Donald Best About Ottawa Police Detective Helen Grus

Ottawa Police shut down SIDS investigation by Detective Helen Grus

“If other (Ottawa Police officers) did not consider whether the vaccine could have had an impact in these nine Sudden Infant Deaths, then I say that their investigations were incomplete, maybe even shoddy.”

“This Detective Grus case is going to be far more important, and garner far more public interest than the Ottawa Police ever thought possible… Thousands and thousands of people have seen the articles I’ve written. (Many) contacted me and discussed it. And that’s from all over the world. Because this is a police officer whose investigation has been shut down.”

Former Toronto Police Sergeant Detective Donald Best in conversation with lawyer Barry Bussey on August 11, 2022.

Posted below are the video and transcript of my conversation with Ontario lawyer Barry W. Bussey of the First Freedoms Foundation.

For those interested in how three corrupt Ontario lawyers fabricated evidence, lied to the court, and bribed police to convict me of Contempt of Court and imprison me in solitary confinement for 63 days… that’s covered in the first ten minutes.

We then discuss how there is a Canada-wide tolerance by judges, lawyers, and law societies, of corruption in the legal profession.

At 15 minutes, we start to discuss the case of Ottawa Police Detective Helen Grus, who faces internal charges for conducting “unauthorized” investigations into sudden deaths of nine infants – where she sought to know the vaccine status of the mothers.

Barry and I have a wide-ranging discussion about Detective Grus – and some of the recent developments that might impact the prosecution’s case against this officer.

Transcript PDF is here: Barry Bussey – Donald Best Interview 2022Aug11 V2

Video at First Freedoms Foundation.

Sign up for the First Freedoms Foundation newsletter.

PLUS – the transcript also appears after this embedded video…


Previous Posts about Detective Helen Grus



Barry Bussey – Donald Best Interview

August 11, 2022 • Recording length: 1:01:33

Transcript first pass. Check against recording. Not suitable for court.


Donald Best, Barry Bussey


Donald Best  00:00

During the initial trials of the Pfizer vaccine, 28 out of 29 babies in the womb, didn’t survive the vaccine. And all that was hidden from millions and millions of people who were forced into taking these vaccines. They can say it’s your, it’s your choice. All you have to do is… not feed your family, lose your job, lose your home, and be destitute. So hey, it’s your choice! That has undermined, I think, faith in institutions and in the government.


Barry Bussey  00:45

Welcome, everyone to Freedom Feature. I’m your host Barry Bussey. today. Our special guest is Donald Best. Donald Best is a former Sergeant Detective with the Toronto Police. And he was responsible for investigating Canadian police, lawyers and politicians involved in organized crime, and is a leading Canadian anti-corruption whistleblower, and activist. Welcome to our program, Donald.


Donald Best  01:11

Thanks, Barry. Great to be here. I just want to say I’ve read some of your pieces in Law Times and Epoch Time. Tough to disagree with any of it. So it’s good to be on your show.


Barry Bussey  01:11

Well, thank you so very much. You know, Donald can, can you just share with our audience a little more about your background and what’s motivated you and your work?

Donald Best  01:31

Well, I started out 21 years old as a Toronto Police officer, a traffic cop riding Harley Davidsons, in West Toronto, Etobicoke. And then from there, I worked my way into organized crime investigations eventually ended up downtown. And I spent 15 years as a sergeant, a detective, ended up as the staff investigator for the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police. And very early I got into anti-corruption work, internal investigations and such, just sort of stumbled upon it, and it grew from there.

Now after that, I started my own business employed about 20 people, I had a private investigation agency. Took me all around the world. And I was doing the same thing that I did, as a police officer – getting a little better paid for it, I would go undercover. And sometimes crimes involve hundreds of millions of dollars. So that took me all around the world. And I did that for another 15 years or so. Along the way, I collected some certifications, Certified Fraud Examiner and other certifications. And here I am.


Barry Bussey  02:38

But listen, I was looking at your website and encourage our listeners to go over to Have a look at the work that you’ve done. But also I’m interested in the story of you being held in jail for contempt of court. And it’s a fascinating read. And I’m wondering if you could share with our listeners the… obviously it could probably take us all day to go into all the details, but an excerpt of of how on earth you ended up in jail for contempt of court.


Donald Best  03:08

I did. Well, it was about 2009. And I had a company, I was also involved in an investigation in Barbados. It was a fraud involving an estate. Now, the estate was worth actually close to 1 billion US dollars. And when you get that kind of a of a nut people do things they normally wouldn’t do. And this is what we saw, we saw one of the beneficiaries of the estate, her portion should have been 100 million US dollars. And that was that was taken from her. It was stolen from her by government officials and judges, people down in Barbados and in Canada and the United Kingdom.


Donald Best  03:56

And by the way, that that trial concluded very favorably recently, last year in Miami, Florida, with the largest RICO civil judgment in history. Over 250 million US dollars, I think was awarded to the estate of that wonderful lady who was defrauded. And that was all my work. That’s what it was. But in the middle of that I was traveling in Asia back in 2009. And my company was involved in a lawsuit over this case in Barbados, and three Toronto lawyers, large law firms, were involved for the other side.


Donald Best  04:34

They purportedly served me with a court document, ordering me to be cross-examined to discovered, normal process during a civil case. And they swore to the court that they had delivered it to me. That was a lie. It was a false affidavit. It wasn’t sent to me. That was proven at the time, and later. They didn’t know that I was traveling in Asia at the time. So I didn’t know what was happening in the case. And I phoned the court the day before I was supposed to appear in Toronto to be cross examined.


Donald Best  05:08

Well, of course, I’m in Asia I can’t magically appear in in Toronto. But I did call and the very next day at the time that was appointed. And of course we do telephone depositions, as you know, all the time. So I phoned, and I offered to answer the questions. I was on the phone with them for half an hour. I asked these lawyers to call in a court reporter. So there would be an accurate record of what was said, and they refused. And they asked me 12 times, if I had received a copy of that court order, I explained to them no, I phoned in the day before, I haven’t got a copy of it, please send it to me. 12 times. And then they hung up the phone. They refused to go any further with the cross examination, they hung up the phone, but unbeknownst to them, I had recorded the conversation. And when they hung up the phone, they didn’t, they didn’t hang it up correctly. So I continued recording. And this is all on the record. There’s transcripts, there’s voice recordings. And these lawyers discussed how they were going to lie to the court about what I had said. Then they left the room. They created a formal statement for the record, wherein they lied to the court in writing. And they backed that up with oral testimony later that I was unaware of.


Donald Best  06:28

They didn’t notify me they were going before the court and they told the judge that I said that I had received the order and I wasn’t going to comply.


Barry Bussey  06:35



Barry Bussey  06:36

Right, that’s how it should be. Yeah.


Donald Best  06:36

On the basis of that, unbeknownst to me, I was convicted in absentia, in a trial I never knew what’s happening, convicted of contempt of court and sentenced to three months in jail. What happened then was I knew I would be okay. All I had to do was returned to Canada,  play the tape for the court, show that the lawyers lied. Everything should be fine. Right, Barry?


Donald Best  06:43

That’s how it should be. Well, when I finally got back, I found that the court wouldn’t allow my evidence, my new evidence to be inserted in the trial.


Barry Bussey  07:02

What was the reason why the evidence was not accepted?


Donald Best  07:13

Well, the evidence was not accepted. But you know, the big reason is they were protecting their fellow club members, what the judge said, and of course, the the transcript is all there. He said that the case was closed. I had petitioned him to reconsider his decision based upon new evidence. And he refused to do that and said that I would have to appeal. And so he lifted the stay that had been on the warrant that sentenced me to three months in prison.


Donald Best  07:40

So what happened is… court ended, the judge went away. I was shackled, handcuffed, court reporter went away, and I was taken downstairs to the cells. And when I was taken downstairs to the cells, that judge went into a backroom, off the record, and created a new warrant of committal that doubled my time in jail. He didn’t tell me. I was self represented at the time and that just happened to take me past the appeal period. So I wouldn’t be able to appeal.


Donald Best  08:08

138 lawyers of the Law Society of Ontario turned me down. They examined the evidence and they told me quite frankly, “I’m sorry, Donald, I’d love to take your case. Yes, the lawyers lied.” One lawyer even told me “All lawyers lie, get over it, live with and cut a deal.” But 138 lawyers feared to take my case, refused take my case, until one lawyer did and that lawyer, very honest lawyer, got me out of jail halfway through the sentence. But in the end, I couldn’t pay over half a million dollars in civil costs that were awarded during the first trial when I was not there. So the Ontario Court of Appeal wouldn’t give me a new trial, nor would they let that evidence in. How about that?


Donald Best  08:51

Now, I’ve been totally vindicated. Later on former Commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police, Julian Fantino sworn affidavit, filed it in my support, saying that the lawyers had lied and one of his men had taken a bribe in that case and worked for the lawyers illegally. Also was invited to speak at law schools in Ontario and British Columbia, where people vindicated me. One of the professors at the Law School of Windsor, she’s the head of the National self represented litigants project. And she was kind enough to do an introduction when I was the sole recipient of the 2018. Ontario Civil Liberties award. So I’ve been fully vindicated. The evidence was there for anyone to see, but the lawyers are still practicing.


Barry Bussey  09:38

I’m very sorry to hear of this experience that you have. There’s so many technicalities, it reminds me of Charles Dickens, you know, Bleak House in which he himself he aspired at one point, I guess, in his early career to be a lawyer and ultimately decided not to be but would make a lot more money being a an author. In that novel he goes through with all of the various technicalities and things that go on in the practice of law that can really grind down people who are unable to fight back against the system, as it were.


Barry Bussey  10:15

Now, of course, a lot of things have changed since Dickens, but your story is another example of what can happen when we have a system that is not at all not willing to, to understand or to appreciate all of the evidence of everything that’s laid before it. And because of some technicality, or position, and then, like you say, there are also the human element where people end up making decisions that are, are just simply, you know, based on concerns about professional pride, professional relationships, all of those kinds of things.


Barry Bussey  10:53

I know, in the past, I was involved in a case where the same kinds of issues were raised. And so it’s very difficult, you know, I’m sure that the public who are listening to this right now, and, and those who go to your website will see what all happened to you and how you’ve outlined everything. And you’ve put all of the evidence out there. And it’s just absolutely unfortunate that you had to experience this kind of thing.


Barry Bussey  11:22

Now, let me just ask you, after all that you’ve been through, and you’ve been with the law as a, as a police officer, as a detective, as a sole litigant. What is your thought with respect to the administration of justice in Canada? Do you still have hope in justice?


Donald Best  11:42

Let’s start with the fact, let’s acknowledge that the vast majority of people who are lawyers in the legal system, vast majority of judges, police officers, nurses, doctors, they’re good people just trying to deliver the best they can with the tools that they have. Okay? Most people are good people just trying to do their job.


Donald Best  12:05

But the problem is, in our justice system, there’s a systemic failing where there’s a Canada wide tolerance by judges and lawyers and law societies, of corruption in the legal profession. It’s mostly just looking the other way. In Ontario and and all across this country, the law societies investigate themselves. Now, we don’t allow police to do that for serious crimes. And maybe we should look at not allowing lawyers to that because they’re investigating the same people, they went to school with, the same people, they work with, the same people they party with, see in court every day. It’s all a big club. And in my case, that is what happened.


Donald Best  12:44

It only takes a few corrupt people, with everyone else afraid to do anything. And those 138 lawyers that turned me down, many of them said right up, it would destroy my practice, I cannot attack another lawyer like that. I can’t do it. And, and so it’s, it’s a lack of courage. But I understand that because people have mortgages, They’re young, they’re starting out, they have young children. And it takes a lot because when you’re a whistleblower, when you tell the truth, when you point out the corruption, and especially if you have the the evidence to back up your allegations… boy you better watch out, you’re about to be attacked, and everybody around you, your family, your lawyer, your friends. That’s the way it is. I suspect it’s like that, and just about every profession. I know it is in the legal profession, and on the police force.


Barry Bussey  13:38

It’s a good point. And it’s something that is a testament to you, and your willingness to recognize that it’s kind of like having a bad apple in a barrel kind of idea and recognizing the… You know, I often hear Jordan Peterson talk about the importance of maintaining trust in our institutions. Because if we don’t have trust in our institutions, we’re in a lot of trouble. It’s very painful to recognize that an entire institution is totally corrupted or whatever. We still nevertheless have to have our minds open to the fact that yes, there are situations and individuals who are malicious, and they may not always be malicious, but in that one particular situation they are for whatever reason. It becomes important to recognize that overall, your experience, you are vindicated. You’ve received this award from the Ontario civil liberties organization.


Barry Bussey  14:40

And so that’s a powerful story. And I just wanted to have our listeners hear this because it goes to the times in which we live. In other words, over the last two and a half years, we’ve gone through a very stressful time with the COVID pandemic and all the rest. And one of the things that it seems to me we need to learn as a result of this experience is to recognize, hey, you know what? We’ve got to ask questions. If things are not making sense here we need to, we need to understand what’s happening. Why is it happening? Why is it that we’ve had all these various lockdowns, mandates and all the rest of them? Why is it that life has been so disturbed? And was it justified? And just asking those questions, sometimes people get offended, because those questions are being asked. But we need to recognize the reality.


Barry Bussey  15:33

And one of the things that you have been working on or at least looking at is the issue of the Ottawa Police detective Helen Grus, who is charged for initiating investigation into possible connections between nine Sudden Infant Deaths and mother’s Vax vaccine status. This is a case now where a lot of people are paying attention. Your tweet has suddenly taken off, as you’ve raised this issue. And I’m just wondering if you can just outline the facts of that case for us and what the issues are,


Donald Best  16:07

First of all, we’ve got to remember, all we know about the case, is what we’ve read in the media. And that’s rather limited, and frankly, rather biased and slanted in much of the media. We have a snippet that was just released yesterday in the Epoch Times about the actual wording of the charges against her. Before we get there, I mean, we see so many armchair lawyers and armchair cops commenting on this. And I’ve had I think now it’s almost 4000 people have retweeted that article and provided comments on it and such. So there’s a lot of interest in it. I will back this up. I’ll just back up a little bit. You asked me if I still had faith in the justice system and the institutions. And and I answered that, partially by saying that I believe people are good, you have to and that most people want to do the good things.


Donald Best  16:55

But in this case, what we’ve seen in the last few years, has terribly undermined my faith in the police force and in the justice system. And I think that’s true of a lot of people, and in the health system, the professionals, doctors and so called experts, all of them. We’ve seen just what a travesty the last three years have been with mandated lock downs. And certainly there’s increasing evidence that these mRNA gene treatments, which are sort of falsely called vaccines, they had to change the definition of that I’m sure you know that to call them vaccines. We’ve seen that the harms are coming. We have seen deaths. We have seen incredible numbers of deaths that shouldn’t be there.


Donald Best  17:43

We’ve seen the Pfizer documents, which are fantastic. They wanted to hide those away for 75 years. And in it, we find out that, for instance, in one case, during the initial trials of the Pfizer vaccine 28 out of 29 babies in the womb, didn’t survive the vaccine. And all that was hidden from millions and millions of people who were forced into taking these vaccines. They can say it’s your it’s your choice. All you have to do is not feed your family, lose your job, lose your home, and be destitute. So hey, it’s your choice. That has undermined, I think, faith in institutions and in the government.


Donald Best  18:30

Then we saw police forces… just incredible. I don’t know what happened to rule of law. I don’t know what happened appeals principles of policing. First day police college they hand you that list. And they say that’s the way it is. That’s way policing supposed to be. You’re part of the community. No one is above the rule of law. What did we see during the pandemic? We saw the chief of police of Toronto and Edmonton and many other cities and the Prime Minister himself kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter. Whether you like Black Lives Matter or not, doesn’t matter to me, but they were violating the COVID regulations about crowds and gathering. So a violation of law and we saw the chiefs of police support them.


Donald Best  19:08

Then when we saw statues torn down and vandalism, we saw pretty well no arrests. We saw a police standing by as that happened. But let Adamson’s barbeque in Etobicoke try and sell pulled pork sandwiches, and they sent in the Mounted Unit to trample the customers who were lined up to buy his sandwiches. Because he was violating the COVID regulations. So we had political application of law, and we still have that. And that’s a terrible, terrible thing when the police become an arm of the political powers. That’s a terrible, terrible thing. And we have seen that and that has undermined Canada’s faith, I believe, in law enforcement. That that entire situation and that impacts directly upon this case with Helen Grus.


Barry Bussey  19:57

And also the other thing that comes to my mind as well, that has really impacted Canadians has been the whole trucker thing. And that we could take a whole discussion in and of itself, but the imposition of the emergencies act and all the rest of it. So yeah, so there’s there’s a lot of challenges that were the pieces as it were, that we have to pick up after these last two and a half years that creates creates this uncertainty, and I appreciate you highlighting that. And then Okay, let’s go to this case.


Donald Best  20:32

What we know about it, is the Ottawa police detective Helen Grus has been charged for initiating an investigation into possible connections between nine Sudden Infant Deaths and the mother’s vaccine status. I’ve predicted that these internal charges, these are according to the police act for discreditable conduct, maybe disobeying an order, we’re not quite sure, because they haven’t seen the chargesheet. This is turning into a major case. Absolutely. And there are legal arguments, there are issues about facts. This is an important case. And I think that off the top of my head, I can think of several defense arguments and cross examination. The defense will try and bring in the necessity of what she did. And I’ll talk about her duties and her authorities and the authorities of a police officer.


Donald Best  21:23

But I think that this was not a case, where, for instance, in Toronto, and then the Ontario Provincial Police recently, and back in my day when I was a police officer, we’ve seen police officers and civilian employees charged with unlawfully accessing information and using it and delivering it to organized crime or outside, outside people. We don’t have that second – to my knowledge, and it’s not been alleged – we don’t have that second part of the charge here. And I’ll get to that charge later. They may not even be charging her with the access of it, just that she failed to note that she accessed it. Once again, Barry… very, very technical. You know, and and we mustn’t lose the big picture about when they make these technical charges. I don’t think that the Ottawa police realize yet the national and international attention that this case is going to, going to garner. I think that when they laid this charge, they were trying to stop other officers from initiating similar investigations. I believe that was the reason for doing it. We’ll see,


Barry Bussey  22:34

As a detective, is it a normal thing to say, “Okay, let’s look at this angle. Let’s look at that angle.” And do you have that ability to do that as a detective? In other words, your own professional kind of like the practice of law or the practice of medicine, you know, you based on your experience… Okay, “let me inquire over here. Let me inquire over there.” What kind of leeway would a detective have?


Donald Best  22:55

Not just a detective. An ordinary fourth class constable on their first day on the job has the same authority in law to launch investigations. That’s pretty well, all you do. And this is going to be a very difficult charge for them to prove, I think, and we’ll get down into the technicality of it. But every sworn police officer is empowered to investigate whatever they want to investigate, whenever they want to investigate it. And it’s that independence of action of police officers, that organizations, governments, authorities… they always fear it, and they always seek to control it.


Donald Best  23:35

Sometimes the public has this impression that every action of a police officer is directed. No, not true. Not true at all. And I can assure you that every police officer who carries a badge in this country right now has initiated investigations of all kinds… independently, without consulting anybody. Driving down the street, on your motorcycle or in your police car, you see something… “I wonder what that’s about? Why is that guy standing on that corner? Why is that Tow Truck towing a Jaguar – looks brand new at three in the morning?” You initiate an investigation. “Why are people always lined up on a Sunday night in the back of a bake shop?” So you initiate an investigation. Nobody gives you permission. Your badge gives you permission. That’s going to be a really tough nut, I think, for the Ottawa police to crack here. Because it’s alleged that she was investigating the potential connection between Sudden Infant Deaths and the vaccine. She wanted to know the vaccine status.


Donald Best  24:36

Now. She apparently looked at police records. Whether she saw in there that the vaccine status of the mother was listed or not listed, omitted, we don’t know. But we can infer that was not listed because she then fall in the coroner and ask the coroner about the vaccine status of the mothers of the dead children. Now I don’t know If the coroner’s investigation of these deaths included the vaccine is a potential cause. But we know that the officer didn’t get any information about that. And she then started calling parents of the dead children to inquire. Now we can infer that the coroner made a complaint. And this is where this comes from. But I think they’re going to have a really, really tough nut.


Donald Best  25:24

And the other thing is, the Ottawa police mandated the vaccine for each of their employees and officers. Chief of Police Sloly did that. And there was a quote also by the chief of police, I believe, and I may be, I may be paraphrasing that they were going to “hunt down antivaxxers’. That was in the relation to the convoy. In my mind, this creates a conflict of interest by the Ottawa police. They have mandated, so has the province, they have mandated that all police officers were to take this upon penalty of losing their job, losing their mortgage, losing their family, losing their car…


Barry Bussey  26:02

What kind of basis would you require the police to be vaccinated? Is it was Was this a normal thing across Canada?


Donald Best  26:11

We know that the federal government has mandated that federal government employees must be vaccinated,


Barry Bussey  26:17

But how about the police forces throughout the country? Do you know if that was something that everyone went along with, or


Donald Best  26:24

I cannot think of any police force that did not go along with it. I know that the Toronto Police, and I know that Montreal and I know the RCMP all have vaccine mandates. And I know various officers who refused, including Detective Grus, by the way, she’s one of those who we refused to get the vaccine, and she was suspended for that reason.


Barry Bussey  26:46

So she’s suspended. She was suspended because of her not receiving the vaccine.


Donald Best  26:53

I believe that is the case. That’s the scenario that I’ve picked up in the papers. Now, this investigation, she initiated that back in 2020, long before she was suspended. So she has she has had this investigation going for a year and a half.


Barry Bussey  27:13

I see.


Donald Best  27:14

And, frankly, with some of the information that’s coming out, I think that she was highly intelligent and diligent to start this investigation.


Donald Best  27:22

You know, I mean, we’ve seen some some incredible revelations, and just in the last three or four months, and I think that this is why a lot of the governments are walking back their mandates. They’re horrified now, because they see what they’ve mandated, and what is what has come with that. So… but here, once again, there’s a conflict of interest, because it is in the interest of the Ottawa police and of the government that nothing, no connection ever be found.


Barry Bussey  27:51



Donald Best  27:52

And so what they’ve done is they’ve stopped her investigation,


Barry Bussey  27:55

But then they would have also said, Well, maybe cuz she was because of her own particular status and not taking the vaccine and reasons why or whatever that may have been. But the fact that she didn’t have the vaccine, it seems like or at least I’m reading here, it’s the idea while she herself is motivated by this position. And somehow there’s maybe a conflict of interest here. But but the reality is, though, it wouldn’t… this investigation was before she was dismissed, or at least put on leave because she didn’t get a vaccine,


Donald Best  28:30

The mandate for the vaccine only became effective in January of 2022.


Barry Bussey  28:36

All right, so she she’d been working on this for quite a while. And it may be that or superiors would say, “Okay, well, you have a bias on this issue. And so therefore, that’s why you did this investigation.” But if she’s not gaining anything from it personally, how is that then a conflict? Other than, you know, we all have our our biases or our understandings that causes us to ask a question, right. I mean, that is, in essence, what she’s done. She’s asked the question they’re trying to find an answer to.


Donald Best  29:08

That’s right. Now, the interesting thing is that question wasn’t asked by the police officers who originally were assigned the file, was it? Otherwise she wouldn’t have continued. So that question wasn’t asked. I can infer that. And I think I think we can be fairly confident about that. Had the vaccine status been noted in the police records, that question would have been asked. So it was not asked. And you can understand that maybe back in 2020 when things first started rolling, that that question might not come up, but certainly will fall of 2020. And certainly by 2021, that was a valid question with all the information we were receiving.


Barry Bussey  29:47

Just to remind me again, when did the vaccine become available? Was it a it was a it was available in 2020? Right? It was early in


Donald Best  29:57

  1. Those were the initial tests. had that that initial trial that I spoke about, I believe it was January to March of 2020, where 28 Out of 29 fetuses in the womb, babies in the womb didn’t survive. That was known about in April of 2020. And hidden by Pfizer and the authorities. And that’s, that’s incredible.


Donald Best  30:19

Now you want to talk about conflict of interest?


Barry Bussey  30:21



Donald Best  30:22

Chief Officer of Health for the province of Ontario is on the advisory board at Pfizer, has been for years. Now, is that not a conflict of interest? He mandated, he mandated that. We know that many politicians have Pfizer stock. Is that a instead of conflict of interest, when they mandated their stock price to go up by giving 10s of millions or billions of dollars worth of business around the world to these companies? Of course it is. So let one diligent, honest, detective from Ottawa, look into it, launch an investigation as she’s allowed to do, and they’ve come down on her like a ton of cement.


Barry Bussey  31:01

Wow. Wow. Where is this now? What stage are we at with this story?


Donald Best  31:07

I understand that she appeared before the tribunal or the the internal court on the eighth of August. Now, that’s interesting, because she appeared via video feed, just like we’re doing now. And as we know, in the past two years, I mean, I’ve given evidence sitting in my living room in Canada, I’ve given evidence in the United States, I’ve given evidence in Florida. This is so normal now. I think that this internal charge case is of great interest to the public, and I believe that it should be streamed live to the public. Absolutely.


Barry Bussey  31:42

Has there been any public access to internal police reviews? Because it would be an internal police commission or an internal police organ that would have reviewed this? Right?


Donald Best  31:54

Right. Well, the the internal affairs lays the charges. And then there’s an internal board, like an internal judge. We’ve seen in the past where officers have been charged that the press has been invited. And like any other trial, there may be orders to not report on something or exclusion of witnesses. You know, for certain for certain testimony. They’re trying to make a big deal about “oh, the violation of the parents privacy”. Give me a break. A police officer who is in fact doing a homicide investigation, right has access to the parents of the dead child? Of course they do. They’re just making this detective out to be something that it’s not. So many people, 1000s of people have commented on the stories mine and others, and so many Canadians are anxious to know… What’s the answer to the investigation she was doing?


Barry Bussey  32:50

So right now we’re dealing with the issue of whether or not she had the right to do the investigation, or at least, you know, that that whole issue, but then the question is the investigation itself? Has it stopped? Do we know that?


Donald Best  33:04

Well, was it diligent in the first place? If she looked into records two years ago, or even a few months ago, and the parents have not been asked, and neither did the coroner tell her whether the parents were vaccinated. I mean, we’ve seen that that recent study where mothers who are lactating – some of the mothers their their milk turned green or blue. My goodness. I mean, don’t forget, all of these mRNA gene treatments were approved on an emergency urgent basis. There have been zero studies at the time they were approved into lactating mothers, into the impact upon the fetus. Zero studies. We still don’t know. We’ve seen recently, statistics from around the world that fertility is down a lot – 15 20% in the most heavily vaccinated countries.


Donald Best  34:01

Now, does that mean that the vaccination was was the that, that caused that? Could it have been locked downs? Could it have been stress? Could it have been the fact that so many diseases were not diagnosed because people were not allowed to go to see their doctors? A lot of factors. But we do know that there has been zero study, even to this day, of a control group, a fertility study of these experiments, still experimental, only approved by emergency treatments. And so I think that the detective’s questions and investigations are correct. And I think Canadians want an answer.


Barry Bussey  34:44

So Okay, where is it now?


Donald Best  34:46

I understand it’s been remanded. I don’t know to what date. Once again, we’re only going by the, what we see in the newspapers. Don’t have a full charge sheet. I tried to get a hold of one. I tried to get a hold of the press release but it doesn’t seem to be on the Ottawa Police website. Apparently it was just given to the news agencies that they wanted to give it to. Apparently, I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong there. Maybe someone can find that. I don’t know who is representing this officer, what law firm or or lawyer are representing her. And that would be interesting too.


Barry Bussey  35:21

Do w know anything about her? The years in which she’s been serving or anything else?


Donald Best  35:26

We do. We know a little bit about her and and what I’ve been able to find is very impressive. I have before me a document, which was an amendment to the criminal code back in 2005, where she was declared a breathalyzer technician, qualified breathalyzer technician. You get drunk, they bring it in on station, and you blow into the machine. And that’s it. That’s the way we view that but you know… You know, as a lawyer Barry, that’s all about evidence. That’s all about detail. That’s forensic evidence gathering. You have to be right up to date on the law, even the case law that came out the week before. That’s a very serious position.


Donald Best  36:08

And frankly, I’ve seen in my day, a lot of good detectives come out of breathalyzer technician positions, fingerprint technicians – things where they have to be meticulous in the detail and also in the law. And that’s a great foundation for a detective and obviously it was for her because then very early in her career, she was appointed to the child Crimes Division. Child porn and abuse, children division, whatever the Ottawa police call it. She’s been working there for a number of years and has done some great work. There’s been some reports of what she’s done. A lot of people are, mention the fact that that is the squad that she works for, child protection. That falls into certainly her assigned duties. Now, even if she wasn’t. Even she was a traffic cop, she could do… As far as I’m concerned she could initiate any investigation into anything. I certainly did. Police officers do it every day. The question is: Was she told to stop? No, that’s something we don’t know, either.


Barry Bussey  37:09

So we have no idea if she was told to stop or it would seem to I guess one would infer that the fact that we’re having this discussion and that she’s been, although she’s put on leave not because of this case, but because of her vaccination status. Right?


Donald Best  37:27

That is correct. That’s entirely correct.


Barry Bussey  37:30

Keep in mind, okay, yeah. So yeah, where she was she told to stop and why would she be told to stop and well,


Donald Best  37:38

Can I give you – I’ll try and make it short – a little example from my career?


Barry Bussey  37:42



Donald Best  37:43

I moved down to 52 Division from Etobicoke. I went from being a motorcycle cop to downtown, right in the heart of Toronto. That’s a tough beat. So I went down there, and in Etobicoke I had started looking at organized crime. There were lots of motorcycle gangs, there was lots of mafioso and we even had a nest of Russian spies at a machinery company down there. The RCMP told us about those and we we worked those for a couple of years as traffic cops.


Donald Best  38:11

You develop all these investigations. So I went downtown. And downtown at that time was Chinatown. And I started nosing around Chinatown and I was soon told, “Look 52 Plainclothes takes care of Chinatown. Don’t go asking any questions, just leave it to the experts. Don’t go into those gaming houses. Don’t be questioning the pimps about the girls. And for God’s sake, if you see a drug deal going down, don’t don’t don’t do anything about it.”


Donald Best  38:37

There’s certain areas of, there’s certain courtesies where you don’t step on other people’s toes. When I had something happening with a motorcycle gang, I phoned up at that time, Sergeant Ron Taverner, was in charge of that section. And he was delighted to have the help, like, even from some rookie motorcycle cop. And that’s, that’s the way it usually works any any. They’d say, “Oh, why don’t you you know, listen, we don’t have can you watch this junkyard for us?”


Donald Best  39:05

Now, that might be because they had something going on over on the street where I was, and they wanted to divert me away from that. They didn’t want to tell me about it. I mean, for a good reason, just operational security. And that’s all fine. And that’s the way these things work. And over the years, even as a motorcycle cop, I worked with homicide, I worked with the RCMP Security Service, organized crime all over all over the world. It just it just happens. We got downtown, and I’m told to leave Chinatown alone. I’m now a Constable in the investigative office working frauds. And they started to take me into their confidence.


Donald Best  39:40

And what I find out is this… that there were dozens of police officers – some of very senior rank – on the take. This has all that played out in the press. There was a whole project on it that I got involved in along with some other people. This is why they were telling us, my partner and I, to leave organized crime alone in Chinatown. These guys were making 1000s of dollars a week.


Donald Best  40:03

Eventually it worked like this: Chief Marks inserted four of us who he knew to be honest into the squad, and we were given permission to pretend to be corrupt. And we did. For a whole year we pretended to be corrupt, documenting everything, only very senior people, not even Internal Affairs knew. Only the chief knew and some other people and the senior Crown Attorney knew. We took the money 10s of 1000s of dollars. We took the trips. We took the meals. We couldn’t take the girls like the other officers did so we brought our own girls – undercover police officers, women that we had brought in from other districts, and they pretended to be our squad groupies. Because such a thing was happening,


Barry Bussey  40:46



Donald Best  40:46

And in the end, we took down members of organized crime. We very sadly had to go and arrest police officers, sometimes even at their home in front their children. Nothing else could be done. And and that whole scenario is in a couple of places you can find it. Certainly in the newspaper articles. It’s mentioned on my website. And it’s also mentioned in Julian Fantino’s, autobiography ‘Duty’, that whole era. So we did that we took that down. But there’s an example of somebody ordering us – ordering us to stop our investigation. Why? They had a contract they had they had a reason, I’m transferring that to Ottawa, and I’m saying, Ottawa, the police force there, has a conflict of interest, a tremendous conflict of interest. It is not in their interest to have a police officer document that there’s something wrong with these vaccines.


Barry Bussey  41:40

You’re raising a question on that? It’s a, you don’t have any, any proof on that. It’s just that based on your experience, it raises questions, right?


Donald Best  41:51

Well, it sure does. If they’ve as an organization, if they’ve mandated that someone is to have these experimental injections under penalty of not working for them anymore, you can imagine that, and there are lots of these cases coming into court. In my opinion, I’d love to hear yours. Will the current revelations and peer supported medical reports and everything like that showing the trouble that these vaccines have become and are causing injuries and even deaths in some cases? Is that a relevant piece of evidence in any court case about wrongful dismissal?


Barry Bussey  42:29

Yeah, no, I mean, I think it would be and it should be. When to look at the whole ball of wax, it would seem to me that justice requires that. It’s always, it reminds me of the famous case of Cicero, the Roman lawyer, and he asked a question, que Bono? In other words, who benefits?


Donald Best  42:51

To whom the benefit. (talking over each other)


Barry Bussey  42:52

And that is, that is what has to be determined in this case is “Okay, well, so who’s benefiting here?” And that’s, that’s where the trier of fact is going to have to look at all of the evidence and to be able to come to a determination.


Donald Best  43:08

I say they’re going to try and limit the evidence like crazy. They don’t want any, they’re going to make it as tightly focused a case as they can. If there’s a rule that says, “if you look at this file, you have to write your name down.” That’s what it’s going to be.


Donald Best  43:23

They’re not going to want to hear evidence about vaccine injuries or deaths. I don’t think they’re going to want to allow that in. But it goes right to her motivation, and to the legitimacy of her investigations – especially if other police officers were assigned, but did not do a good job. Did not go into this in detail. Were not diligent, for whatever reason, I think she’s got a great case. I’d rather be on the defense team than the prosecution in this one,


Barry Bussey  43:52

Wow, this is this is absolutely phenomenal. Just so that the audience audience is aware, this is still just at the internal police review stage. And then of course, then there would be other legal opportunities for her to basically take the matter into court and, and so on as to whether or not it was properly decided and so on. It’s definitely going to open up a ball of wax that a lot of people may not want to have opened – in essence is the message that that I’m hearing from you?


Donald Best  44:24

Absolutely. We’ve seen it before throughout the medical industry, people being shut down. Experts, even experts who were involved in the creation of the mRNA technology have been shut down. People like Dr. (Peter) McCullough and others, they’ve been shut down. Why? There’s billions of dollars at stake. That’s why. And there’s also a great reluctance by those who mandated these experimental injections, great reluctance to admit they were wrong even to this day. They’re still trying to carry on these vaccine mandates in the health system, even though Oh, it’s caused, I think 1000s and 1000s of wonderful medical personnel, nurses, doctors, technicians to have to leave their jobs or be fired from their jobs. And now they’re complaining about a shortage of medical technicians, nurses and doctors.


Barry Bussey  45:16

That is the irony of our time, right? I mean, it’s the irony of recognizing now that the vaccine is not what they claimed it would be at the beginning. And then, and then the other interesting thing is, is that this almost kind of like gaslighting, where they say, “Well, yeah, but we never said that, you wouldn’t be able to get the COVID by taking the vaccine.”


Donald Best  45:39

Yes, they did. And here’s the video. You’ve seen them yourself.


Barry Bussey  45:44



Donald Best  45:44

And this is one of the the trust is totally destroyed, totally destroyed.


Barry Bussey  45:50

It’s interesting, again, come back to Jordan Peterson, because he’s kind of like one of the top commentators of our age. But he says, At the end of the day, the lack of trust that’s going to be exhibited by the general public towards the medical profession where there’s always been tremendous amounts of trust, right? I mean, we trust literally the physicians with our lives. When we get this confusing messages, itt’s that trust and that breakdown of trust with the experts and all the rest of it, that is going to have some long term implications for us as a society as we go forward. And certainly when it comes to the police force, another another huge important institution, and this case, as you have, as you’ve highlighted it, have you ever seen anything like this? Like is this the Is this the the case that that you’re aware of, in western democracies, where you have anything like this?


Donald Best  46:51

I’m aware of several other police officers who have looked into some things and expressed doubts. And I think that Detective Grus she has come forward, because she’s charged. I don’t mean she came forward or did it because she’s charged. It’s just her name is known because she has charged. But I think there’s lots and lots of other people, hundreds, 1000s of police officers, certainly in the medical profession, too, who have grave grave doubts and who have made investigations and which, and if you go online, you’ll find these comments, even on my little article on Twitter by doctors and surgeons who said “If I, if we had only known in 2020, what we know now I never would have taken it myself. Never would have recommended it to my patients.”


Donald Best  47:43

That talk is coming out there. It’s almost a tsunami now. But consider this, as a good police officers, good Detectives believe nothing is a coincidence. There are no coincidences, back everything up, find the evidence. And this is what I think – it’s obvious from just the procedure that has at least been revealed that Detective Grus did you know, at least what we see in the papers, It seems obvious too that the other police officers if there were any, we’re not as diligent as she was. And I think that’s a very important factor in her defense, and probably why, and I’m speculating here, come on, you know, things might change tomorrow, but it’s probably one of the reasons why she decided to continue with this investigation, because her initial investigation showed that these questions and the investigations were not being properly handled by the initial personnel.


Barry Bussey  48:39

Now, what has been the response of the journalists that you’ve seen? Have they been negative towards her? Or


Donald Best  48:48

I think, yes, there has been a desire in the in most of what I’ve read, to portray her as some sort of rebel, bad behaved. How dare she violated privacy? They’re just making things up to tar and feather her. But when we look at, once again, I’ll say it again, again, we’re only going from the little that we know. I’d love to see the charge sheet. I’d love to hear the testimony and see the transcripts. I think it should all be public. I really do. And I think that all of this privacy issue is a red herring. Police officers are allowed to know anything in the in their quest of legitimate investigation.


Donald Best  49:36

So once again, if other people did not consider whether the vaccine could have had an impact in these nine Sudden Infant Deaths, then I say that their investigations were incomplete, maybe even shoddy


Barry Bussey  49:51

Well, you know what this is… Thank you so much for highlighting this case and it’s one that I want to come back to you on as as It develops so that you can keep us informed as to what’s been happening with it. But it strikes me that as a country, we’re at a point where we need to be really concerned about how we can protect our our rights, our freedoms from organizations, including our own government. I was just speaking with a lawyer and he’s highlighted to me that even the federal government now is investing in artificial intelligence that is going to be used on the internet, to regulate, quote, misinformation. And so it’s going to somehow be able to cut back people’s discussion or limit the how far their discussion on so called, this misinformation is going to be spread, and so forth.


Barry Bussey  50:49

And I’m like… Where are the days when we would sit down in a free and democratic society, and we could debate and discuss ideas? And we could have an open discussion and ask questions, every question. I remember, one time a science professor or a science teacher actually, in high school, he would always say in the physics class, he would always say, “there is no dumb question.” And it seems to me that we need to get back to that mindset in society that there is no dumb question. And if there’s a detective that is asking these questions, it’s not a dumb question. It’s a question that we need an answer to. And I think as you rightly point out, Donald, so many people across the country are going to be paying attention to this case, and finding out what the answers are going to be to these questions that she has raised.


Donald Best  51:45

I think that the reason she was charged is part of this general movement right now to criminalize dissent, to smash dissent of all kinds. And that comes right from the top right, from the Prime Minister’s Office, we certainly we see that I’ve never seen so many tyrants in all my life, somehow, they, the little tyrants just fell into place during the lock downs. And that starts at the top, and it goes all the way up. And now this idea, and they’re imposing laws to limit speech, it’s all part of limiting dissent, criminalizing dissent, where they can. Smashing dissenters to consolidate power and money.


Barry Bussey  52:26

So tell me, how do we stand up against this?


Donald Best  52:29

As I said before, there’s a lot of us are young, got new families, mortgages, it’s tough for them to stand up. It really is. And that means that those of us who are in a little more secure position… what are they going to do send me back to solitary confinement, I’ve already been there. We have to be right up front, we have to object and we have to not only say no – let our no be no. There are growing numbers of people who are realizing that it’s no longer enough to just talk about it among ourselves, and that we must, and I’ll say this, I’m not saying anything at all, except we must, as far as we can, legally and peacefully resist this tyranny.


Donald Best  53:18

We must do that in every way that each of us has. And here, you and I are talking about it. That’s our that’s our chosen way. Maybe when I wanted to go into a restaurant and they wanted me to wear a mask, I would say no. Or I would turn away and deny them my money. Everybody has little ways. And and and they’re calling, shall we say to do it.


Donald Best  53:41

But once again, we realize that the vast majority of people are in very vulnerable positions when the government, without due process of law, can reach into your bank account and take everything. Without due process of law, notice, no search warrant, nothing. You’re in political opposition to the government, so we seized your house and bank account. My God, did we ever think that would happen? In Canada? Barry. Did you ever think that? Ever?


Barry Bussey  54:15

Never. No. Never.


Barry Bussey  54:16

And it’s, it’s It’s extraordinary to me. I I’m currently writing a book right now on the entire Fallout or with the lessons to be gained from the trucker convoy. I’ve finished a chapter on the Emergencies Act, and I just can’t get over as I’m, as I’m writing it. And as I’m reading what I’ve written, I’m like, you know, really, I never thought in my entire career that I would be writing this information and discussing these kinds of issues. It’s, it’s just mind boggling.


Donald Best  54:16



Barry Bussey  54:50

And you know, when I look back, because the opening chapters of the book, I’m kind of setting the context and so on help with my editor. And you know, as I go back to 2019 and look at what life was like before, to what life is like now. And what we’ve experienced. It’s absolutely, you know, you have to give your head a shake about the nightmare in which we have been living. And so many different factors, so many different institutions and so forth that have been so damaged as a result of the political machinations that we’ve faced is incredible.


Donald Best  55:29

But not just damaged. We fear them now.


Barry Bussey  55:32



Donald Best  55:32

We fear those organizations, those people in authority. We fear them, because we’ve seen what they have become and what they have done and what they can do.


Barry Bussey  55:44

I have a number of friends and families who are literally right today packing up their house and are leaving Canada. And I’m like, like, I’m wondering, like, okay, so they’re leaving. And I’m like, okay, so what should I be doing? You know, I mean, part of what I’m doing, like this entire program, with First Freedoms is all about and came as a result of a year ago, going through this horrendous election, where we had a prime minister that demonized a group of people who are unvaccinated. And, and it’s like, I just couldn’t remain silent. And it’s like, this is my, for whatever it’s worth, protest against what’s been going on, and to speak up and to say something and to speak to people like you and others.


Barry Bussey  56:38

And it seems to me that we all have a responsibility to just say, “Hey, listen, we can’t accept this as being the new normal.” We have got to take the time and sit back and look at what’s happened to us. What do we expect in a free and democratic society? We need to take down the the books, you know.


Barry Bussey  56:59

One of the things that I’ve often thought about after reading a George Orwell’s 1984, where Winston is part of his job is to change the news stories, you know, based on the current political reality that needed to be changed. And I’ve often said, you know, one of the reasons why I have books, is because, okay, so I have the book, no one can take it now. No one can go into my digital archive, and change the words of what the book said. I’ve got an actual physical library of 1000s of books. And I’ve often thought about it as time has gone on, you know. We need to keep our physical libraries. Because at the rate we’re going, they’re going to be telling us that all of the old books didn’t actually say what you think they said, you know, because of whatever political thing is going on. It’s just bizarre. It’s, it’s kind of like a science fiction,


Donald Best  57:54

I’ll go on that rant with you a little bit. I too, have several 1000 books. And the other day, I packed up a box of about 150 of them, and Itook them down to a used bookstore to try and sell them. And you know what? Used bookstores don’t buy books anymore. They operate on a “just leave them.” Lots of people are leaving them. Books are falling out of favor. And I think that’s a terrible, terrible thing. I think you rightly highlight the reason why we want paper. And I just wanted to, you know, trade some in 100 of them. And they offered me 30 cents of book for brand new $30 hard covers that have been read once. And I am told that this is the reality of the US book business right now. Bookstores are going out of business and those that remain are largely funded through donations of books, not the buying and selling that we used to see. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think that’s a very poor indicator for the future.


Barry Bussey  58:53

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think any I know, keeping my library is kind of like my own personal little protest, as it were. I mean, I love my ereader. I use it all the time, especially when I’m traveling, but the actual having the physical book, I think is extremely important. Well, you know, Donald, I just want to thank you so much for coming. Is there any final word that you would like to leave with our viewers?


Donald Best  59:18

Yes. This Detective Grus case is going to be far more important, and garner far more public interest than I believe, the Ottawa police ever thought possible. And I’m seeing interest in it. 1000s and 1000s of people have seen the articles I’ve written and contacted me and discussed it. And that’s from all over the world. Because this is a police officer whose investigation has been shut down. I think that they had no idea when they laid these charges, that this would be the result. It’s going to be a fantastic case to watch, both as a Canadian but also with someone who loves the law, and the rule of law and police, and we’re going to see what’s going to happen,


Barry Bussey  1:00:07

Great. Well, listen, thank you so much Donald, for being with us. I really appreciate you taking the generous amount of time to be with us. And your own personal experience, but also with this important case is extremely important for our listeners to hear, and to recognize the times in which we live.


Barry Bussey  1:00:27

And I want to thank you, our viewers who have taken the time to be with us here at Freedom Feature. And as we point out at every program, you may not agree with everything that we say or with what my guest would say, what I say. But that’s okay, because we’re all here recognizing the importance of a dialogue and in order to have a free and democratic society, we must have free and open discussion. Freedom of speech is one of those first freedoms that the first Freedoms Foundation is standing for.


Barry Bussey  1:00:57

And so until next time, I’m Barry Bussey.


Barry Bussey  1:01:03

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